Originally Posted 06/17/2019
Today I’m going to try and explain the comments about writers groups in my last post, because, if I can, I want to save as many people as possible from stumbling into the same trap I did. Also, I’m not the first person to write a blog post about this so don’t come here expecting to learn anything new. This is just my personal experience.
Okay, where to begin? Well, let’s go back a bit.
I started looking for a writer’s group in 2011, but I only went to two meetups. The first was only three other people and they all just talked about their book ideas because apparently, no one in the group had actually fucking written anything yet. The other group was a bunch of older people reminiscing about how great their writing careers used to be. They had also not written anything in years. So I basically said “screw this” and stopped looking for a writing group because I don’t have time for that kind of shit.
Fast forward to 2018. There I was, twelve years later and 1,293,759+ words published online. Granted, more than half of that was fanfiction, but it was still writing. I was still creating stories that people were reading every day. I also had a nice chunk done on my first original novel and I needed someone to read it. Someone who was not my best friend or my husband and might actually have some experience. Don’t get me wrong, my husband and best friend are amazing and I don’t know what I would do without them, but they read my stuff to tell me how awesome I am, not to critique. I recommend this for all aspiring writers. Sometimes you just need cheerleaders.
Anyway, back to the story. I braved Meetup again, despite my reservations, and found a group that sounded promising. This group meets twice a month at a cute cafe in Seattle and they are relatively serious about their work. They even have this thing where whoever wants their stuff critiqued, submits their work in a file on the group page so people can download and read it before the meetup. Holy shit awesome. So I signed up, downloaded the submissions that were going to be discussed, and got super excited.
I have to say those first few sessions were pretty cool. The group follows the Milford Style of critiquing, which is great. In Milford, you go round robin and everyone gets a turn talking about the submitted work, while the author says nothing. Responding to the critique comes after everyone speaks. There’s also a time limit of 3-5 minutes for every critiquer. Simple. There were some really fun stories and the camaraderie was really uplifting. I felt inspired for the first time in a long time, and knowing I had a group of writers that I could turn to if I was really stuck was amazing. By the fourth session I was ready to bring in my own stuff. I submitted the first chapter (maybe chapter and a half?) of my novel and got it critiqued the next weekend. It went really well, got a lot of positive feedback, and I felt pretty good about it.
Now, this is where it starts to get hard to explain.
I want to make one thing clear first: I’m not writing this post about a writer’s group I think is bad because I wrote something and they didn’t like it. No no. The group actually went out of their way to tell me that my writing is actually quite good, excellent in fact. The problems with this group go much deeper so just bear with me as I try to explain the fuck-uppary.
I think I need to explain groupthink before I continue. And since I’m lazy, I’m going to copy-paste from Wikipedia because their synopsis is quick and dirty. Here you go:
“Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within a group of people in which the desire for harmony or conformity in the group results in an irrational or dysfunctional decision-making outcome. Group members try to minimize conflict and reach a consensus decision without critical evaluation of alternative viewpoints by actively suppressing dissenting viewpoints, and by isolating themselves from outside influences.
Groupthink requires individuals to avoid raising controversial issues or alternative solutions, and there is loss of individual creativity, uniqueness and independent thinking. The dysfunctional group dynamics of the “ingroup” produces an “illusion of invulnerability” (an inflated certainty that the right decision has been made). Thus the “ingroup” significantly overrates its own abilities in decision-making and significantly underrates the abilities of its opponents (the “outgroup”). Furthermore, groupthink can produce dehumanizing actions against the “outgroup”.”
Basically, groupthink is a weird phenomenon where individual members of a small group tend to accept a viewpoint or rationalization that represents a perceived group consensus. The consensus might not even be valid, or real, or even for the best, it’s just a consensus that avoids conflict. Everyone agrees so that no one disagrees because conflict is hard to deal with.
Groupthink is so fucking prevalent in this writer’s group, it’s insane. There are three (maybe four?) people who I would label the “ingroup”. Two of them are moderators, unfortunately, and the other two are writers that are considered “semi-professional” within the community because they’ve had a few (like one, maybe two) short stories published in a magazine. These four people write in the same genre (fantasy/sci-fi), have basically the same ideas for how a story is supposed to go (it’s weirdly specific), and all have a strange hatred of men?? One of them is a man, so this last one is extra weird to me.
So these four individual’s ideals sort of run the whole show. When things that are not Sci-fi or fantasy, or some off-shoot of those two genres is submitted, everyone kind of turns up their noses at it. There is always a much harsher critique of male characters than female, and there is usually a discussion of the structure if the submission doesn’t follow the formula this group likes. Also, and this is the weirdest part, when stories are being worked on in the session and we’re starting the round robin, you can feel a shift in the atmosphere as one of these four people speak. It’s like everyone is waiting for them to talk because they need to know the direction this critique is taking.
It feels like a hive mind. It took me almost seven months of attending these sessions before I realized that everyone has stopped writing for themselves. Nothing is completely original anymore. I mean, there are good ideas for sure, and some great characters, but it’s all mashed into these unspoken guidelines because everyone is just writing for the group.
All of this is totally unintentional. I have no hard feelings when it comes to this particular thing. Groupthink is just something that happens and I feel so sorry for the ten or so writers that come every week, desperate for feedback from their trusted writing group but are just getting a bunch of personal feelings and convoluted advice back. It sucks. They’re pretty much stuck in this loop of struggling writing while being critiqued by other struggling writers so there’s never any real solutions to things that aren’t working. The work never gets truly polished, just molded into another story that works within the expectations of this group.
Okay. I’ve been nice up to this point. Now it’s time to get fucking real.
The group definitely looks for things to critique, not bits they don’t understand or parts that aren’t working. They definitely will read something and if there’s nothing really glaring or obvious, instead of just talking about how they liked it, they will go out of their way to pick at something completely, COMPLETELY irrelevant. “Would a dog really cock its head like that?” “Are you sure her hair is limp after being in the rain? This line about its dampness really took me out because you talked about it being thick in the last chapter.” “This section really took me out because I just don’t think he would pet the cat.”
Drives. Me. Fucking. Nuts.
If you like something, just say you like it and move on. Are you trying to show off? Are you showing us how superior you are by noticing something wrong when the rest of us missed it? It’s a CAT. He just stopped to pet the cat for like three seconds, it doesn’t matter! And what’s worse, is that after one of the four leaders does something like that, the weird groupthink thing will kick in and then everybody will start commenting on how “oh yeah, that took me out too! why is he petting the cat? it’s so strange!” when two minutes ago no one cared about that bit at all.
When I got to the Norwest Con Workshop, I voiced some concerns over my novel that were brought up by the Groupthink writer’s group and everyone kind of scratched their heads. The Norwest Con group responded with: No, my protagonist was actually very sympathetic. No, the magic absolutely made sense. And my favorite: No, you can absolutely have humor during an intense fight scene. It was so wonderful, the relief that flowed through me was almost painful. The members of the Norwest Con Workshop gave me solid critique, plus a ton of encouragement and inspiration, and basically shot down everything the Groupthink group said about it.
By the end of the Norwest Con weekend, Groupthink writer’s group was a kind of a joke. Neil Clarke told me flat out I should just find another writer’s group because if they were making me this discouraged and giving me bonkers critique, I shouldn’t associate myself with them. I didn’t want to believe it at first, but Neil is a professional. It’s taken me weeks to get past my doubts and to realize that I was truly in a toxic writing environment, but I think now I’m finally getting over it.
I haven’t gone back, to the Groupthink writer’s group I mean. And I haven’t spoken to anyone in the group since, besides when I ran into a few of them at Norwest Con. (More on that later because it’s insane.)
Sometimes I slip and think “no, I overreacted, they were all pretty good writers and they were just trying to help me”, but then I look back at my work and I think “no, this is good stuff and I feel good about it.” And that’s what it boils down to. Write because you love it, and learn to love what you write. I guess I just don’t want anyone to get stuck like I did. Writer’s groups are great, but you need to not rely on them for everything. Don’t take everything they say to heart because it’s very likely none of them are professionals. Use them for accountability, for camaraderie, and inspiration, but don’t make a writing group your sole source for feedback.
I also have to add one last little thing because it’s another weird quirk about Groupthink group.
They have very strange taste in books. According to the mods, Dune by Frank Herbert is in the same realm as Twilight: a book that somehow got popular but is actually written badly and has no plot. Also, Steven King’s books are contrived and are all so similar to each other that they’re unreadable. Also, there should never be sex in books because it’s always silly and ruins the flow if it’s something other than romance.
?? …So apparently I also have terrible taste I guess?
Anyway, that’s it for today. Maybe now, dear readers, you will understand my mindset for the last few months. I’ve experienced writer’s block before, but up until now, it’s all been internal. External writer’s block is a bitch. Stay away from that shit.
Have a good week everyone! Wash your face, clip your nails–try not to bite them. Always pet your pets (unless you have fish, don’t pet fish).
Sam Stark 